A couple of striking exceptions are paleoclimatic reconstructions and comments about the glaciation of Scandinavia made at "When the Sky Fell" web site and in the book and comments about Scottish geology made in the book. Both are commented on below.

Re: Atlantis: Is it in Antarctica?
Author: Heinrich 
Date: 1999/03/27
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:05:09 CST
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology

Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Atlantis: Is it in Antarctica?

In article <36FC0552.1978@spammers.of.the.world.unite.etc>,
on Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:08:18 -0800,
nospam@spammers.of.the.world.unite.etc said...
[pablo123@my-dejanews.com wrote:
[>>
[>>Just wondering what this group thinks of this theory.
[>>I discovered it while browsing through the internet
[>>at: www.flem-ath.com/del1.htm

I have commented about this web site.  Some of my previous
posts can be found using "Deja News."  A person just needs
to use the keywords "Heinrich" and "Flem-Ath" at:

  http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml

For other articles, a person can go to my "The Wild Side
of Geoarchaeology Page" at:

  http://www.intersurf.com/~heinrich/wildside.html

[>It is wholly fictional. The notion that Antarctica has
[>moved appreciably within the last few million years is
[>not supported by the age of the ice that has been
[>deposited on it.

I have to agree with this statement.  There is precious
little evidence to support the claims made by Mr. Flem-Ath
and an abundance of evidence refuting them which the web
site and "When the Sky fell" simply overlook.  An example
of how Mr. Flem-Ath overlooks important research that
contradicts his claims can be found on the web page
related to this book.  If a person goes to:

    http://www.flem-ath.com/del11.htm ,

a person would find a figure showing what it claims
was the position of North America relative to his
postulated polar zone before and after the polar shift
at 9,600 BC (11,600 BP).  The figure illustrates a "top
circle" that it claims "shows" the modern Arctic Circle.
It also illustrates a "bottom circle" which it claims
"shows" the Arctic Circle before the earth's crust shifted.
The map highlight areas that it claims that "mark lands
which were once temperate."

This map shows that the northwest coast of Siberia and
the north edge of Scandinavia was temperate before the
polar shift at 11,600 BP.  In constructing this figure,
the Flem-Aths ignore an enormous amount of data which that
completely refutes this conclusion.  First, the figure
ignores an incredible amount of data that shows that
all of Scandinavia was actually covered at this time by
a large ice-cap which at one time extended into western
Siberia.  Second, as shown by Figure 4 of Peltier (1994),
the area shown by the Flem-Ath as "temperate" lands in
eastern Siberia was also partially covered by a large
western Siberia ice cap.  The remainder of this part of
Siberia was certainly not "temperate" as web page figure
shows because it was covered in the north by both
steppe-tundra and polar desert.  All of northern Eurasia
was dry and treeless being dominated by polar desert or
semi-desert steppe-tundra at this time.  Later, around
11,000 - 12,000 BP, this area consisted of open conifer
woodland and tundra (Frenzel et al. 1992).  Thus, even
at this late date it would grossly incorrect to
characterize it as "temperate."  A person can help but
only conclude that this figure on the "When the Sky Fell"
web page shows a paleoenviornmental reconstruction that
is largely, if not entirely, fictional being unsupported
by well documented palynological and faunal data.

This is all illustrated and documented on-line in the
"Eurasia During the Last 150,000 Years" web page at:

   http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEURASIA.html

A comparison of this web page with the claims made by
the "When the Sky Fell" web page shows how much data
has been ignored in order to make Earth Crustal
Displacement work.  This page overlooks two huge ice
sheets and data showing that Siberia was occupied by
both steppe-tundra and polar desert.

--- Ice Sheets in Scandinavia and Scotland? ---

At http://www.flem-ath.com/md.htm , Mr. Flem-Ath states:

  "Thank you for your comments.  We cite evidence
  from Norway and Scotland that show that these areas
  were ice-free prior to 12,000 years ago.  We agree
  that they were once under ice but at a much older
  date than the ice cap that covered most of North
  America.  The Scandinavian and Scottish glaciation
  in our view came about between 91,600 and 50,600
  years ago when the North Pole was centered in the
  Greenland Sea.  (see Chapter Six of When the Sky
  Fell). "

In making the claim that the "Scandinavian and Scottish
glaciation" occurred about between 91,600 and 50,600
BP, the Flem-Aths ignore an immense amount of geological
research that has been done in Scotland and Scandinavia
over the last 100 years.  This research includes hundreds
of radiocarbon dates from glacial moraines and outwash
that show that Denmark was subject to four ice advances
between 13,000 and 25,000 BP (Berthelsen 1979; Lundqvist
1986).  There exist an abundance of irrefutable evidence,
including dating by radiocarbon dating and a well
established clay-varve chronology, overlooked completely
in the web page and the book "When the Sky Fell."  This
evidence demonstrates that the last glaciation of
Scandinavia reached it maximum extent 18,000 to 20,000 BP.
After 18,000 BP, there was a continuous shrinkage of this
ice sheet until by 8,500 BP only a small remnant existed
in central Sweden.  By 7,500 BP, even this remnant had
vanished (Lundqvist 1986; Peltier 1994).  The claim that
the last "Scandinavian glaciation" occurred between 50,600
and 91,600 BP lacks any factual basis and ignores an
immense amount of research, as summarized in Berthelsen
(1979), Lundqvist (1986), and other papers, which directly
refutes it.

Similarly, there exists an equally voluminous accumulation
of research about Scottish glacial geology which equally
refutes the claim by the Flem-Aths that "Scottish
glaciation" occurred between 50,600 and 91,600 BP.  In
Scotland, it is well documented by the study of glacial
tills and outwash that the last major glaciation occurred
between 10,000 to 26,000 BP.  As shown in table 3 of Bowen
et al. (1986), other major glaciations occurred between
250,000 to 300,000 BP and 430,000 and 480,000 BP.  However
as that table shows, evidence for any sort of glacial
deposits within Scotland between 50,600 and 91,600 BP
is currently lacking.  As in case of Scandinavia, the
claim that a "Scottish glaciation" even occurred between
50,600 and 91,600 BP also lacks any evidence (Bowen et
al. 1986; Shotton 1986).

The main alleged evidence that is presented by both
"When the Sky Fell" and its web page is stated by the
Flem-Aths in "When the Sky Fell" on pages 77 to 78.  In
the first case, this book mentions a Associated Press
news report about how in the summer of 1993, two Norwegian
scientists, Dr. Rolv Lie and Stein-Erik Lauritzen, found
polar bear bones at a site 250 kilometres north of the
Arctic Circle.  About this, "When the Sky Fell," stated:

   "Carbon-14 and uranium dating confirmed that the
   bones must be at least forty-two thousand years old,
   dating to the last Ice Age. The finding was startling
   because geologists assume that Arctic Norway was under
   a vast ice cap from eighty to ten thousand years ago,
   making it impossible for any life to survive."

In addition to the bones, "When the Sky Fell" claims that
wolf bones, field mice, ants, and tree pollen were also
found.  Because this information is from a popular
Associated Press article, presumably from an unnamed
newspaper, it is difficult to verify the specifics of this
claim and determine whether, as often happens, the facts
concerning this discovery were garbled by the reporter.

However, it is revealing that the phrase "at least
forty-two thousand years old" is used.  This usage
suggest to me that the radiocarbon date is not a finite
date, but rather a "greater than" date.  Because of the
limitations of both the radiocarbon dating technique and
the instruments used, it sounds like that they were unable
to establish a definite date for the bone.  Instead, they
could only determine that the bone was older than 42,000
years old.  Thus, all that is likely known is that the
bone is more than 42,000 years old.  If that is the case,
then it and associated deposits could date to around
48,000 to 55,000 years ago when the Scandinavian ice sheet
was much smaller than at its maximum and northern Norway
would have been ice free.  This was an interstadial period
during which the climate would have been mush warmer and
the existence of polar bears and wolves could be expected.

Another problem is that the 40,000 to 50,000 year range
is at the very limit of radiocarbon dating.  Even a date
of 42,000 BP might often represent bones that are older
than 50,000 years contaminated by younger carbon.
Uranium-series dating might not help clarify the age of
these bones as it is extremely unreliable for dating
bone.

A final problem is that how a bone dated as being over
42,000 years old can refute the existence of the well
document the maximum extent of glaciation that occurred
in Scandinavia 8,000 to 26,000 BP, is not explained.

The second piece of evidence that "When the Sky Fell" uses
to refute what conventional geologists have documented
about the glacial history of Scotland and Scandinavia is
Sutherland and Walker (1984).  About this paper, it states:

   "But the Norwegian discovery was not the only evidence
   that would challenge our assumption about the Arctic
   before 9600 B.C. Off the northwest coast of Scotland
   lies the remote Isle of Lewis. In 1984, two scientists
   made the amazing discovery that it was unglaciated
   between thirty-seven and twenty-three thousand years ago.
   They wrote:

     Models of the last ice sheet showing Scottish ice
     extending to the continental shelf edge depict the
     north of Lewis as being covered by 1,000-1500 meters
     of ice, but our evidence demonstrates that part of
     this area was actually ice-free2"

Above, "When the Sky Fell" grossly misrepresents the
conclusions of Sutherland and Walker (1984).  Anybody who
reads this article, will find that figure 1 of Sutherland
and Walker (1984) clearly illustrates a terminal moraine
marking the northwestern edge of undisputed glacial
deposits of the last glaciation that crosses the northern
tip of the Isle of Man.  The lack of glacial deposits
observed by Sutherland and Walker (1984) and a number of
radiocarbon dates that they present demonstrate that only
the northernmost few kilometers of the northern tip of Isle
of Man and the continental shelf offshore of it remained
unglaciated.  As discussed and illustrated by Sutherland
and Walker (1984), the Isle of Man was indeed glaciated,
except for its northern tip, by an ice sheet that extended
about a 100 km from a northern major Scottish ice shed to
the southeast.  This is illustrated by figure 5 of Bowen
(1986).

It should be noted that "When the Sky Fell" has also the
age of the glaciation badly garbled.  The book implies
that the age of the glaciation was 23,000 to 37,000 BP.
However, the age of the last glaciation within Scotland,
as recognized by geologists, is approximately 10,000 to
26,000 BP, not the figure implied above by Mr. Flem-Ath.
The 23,000 to 37,000 BP dates are just the range of
radiocarbon dates found by Sutherland and Walker (1984).
In fact, Sutherland and Walker (1984) state that they
infer that deposits dated are actually younger than these
dates because the samples dated likely consist of younger
shells mixed with older shells.  In fact, they mention
amino acid data that supports this supposition.

When the so-called evidence is examined, a person finds
that this evidence fails to substantiate the claim that
Norway and Scotland were ice-free prior to 12,000 years
ago.  In fact, a review of the literature would easy show
that an abundance of research published in peer-reviewed
journals and books that soundly refutes such claims.  A
case can be made for the claims of Mr. Flem-Ath only if
a person overlooks an overwhelming quantity of contrary
research and evidence refuting them.

--- Beech Trees of Antarctica ---

... "Beech Trees" arguments covered in another article omitted ...

--- Summary ---

Unfortunately, all too many of the so-called "facts"
given by "When the Sky Fell" and the web page are badly
garbled and greatly misinterpreted.  Examples of other
gross factual errors and misinterpretations include:

1. that Greenland was completely without ice prior to
   91,600 BC;

2. that Lesser Antarctica enjoyed a milder climate before
   9,600 BC;

3. that the Tiahuanaco (Tiwanaku) Site, Bolivia is
   over ten thousand years old;

4. that the primary glacial - interglacial cycles
   were not synchronous on a global scale;

5. that the ice-free corridor cannot be explained;

6. That the Alaskan faunas depict temperate, not polar
    conditions;

7. That the Piri Reis map shows an ice-free Antarctica;

8. That there existed a "Zone of Death";

9. That Earth-Crustal Displacements are even possible;

10. and many more.  The readers of this book need to verify
independently just about anything cited or claimed in "When
the Sky Fell" and its web site.

The main conclusion is that both this book and its web
site are badly flawed by extremely poor research and
misstatements of fact to the point that they both fail to
prove any claims about Atlantis being in Antarctica.  I
know of no Quaternary geologist or geomorphologist who
takes any of what "When the Sky Fell" proposes seriously.
This is not at all surprising given the rather laughable
quality of scholarship that it characterizes if.

References Cited:

Bowen, D. Q., Rose, J., McCabe, A. M., and Sutherland,
D. G., 1986, Correlation of Quaternary glaciations in
England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. in V. Sibrava,
D. Q. Bowen, and G. M. Richmond, ed., pp. 299-341,
Quaternary Glaciations in the Northern Hemisphere.
Pergammon Press, New York. 514 pp.

Francis, J, E., and Hill, R. S., 1996, Fossil plants from
the Pliocene Sirius Group, Transantarctic Mountains:
evidence for climate from growth rings and fossil leaves.
Palios. v. 11, no. 4, 389-396.

Frenzel B., Pecsi B., and Velichko, A .A., eds., 1992,
Atlas of Palaeoclimates & Palaeoenvironments of the
Northern Hemisphere. INQUA/Hungarian Academy of Sciences.
Budapest.

Lundqvist, Jan, 1986a, Late Weichselian glaciation and
deglaciation in Scandinavia. in V. Sibrava, D. Q. Bowen,
and G. M. Richmond, ed., pp. 269-292, Quaternary
Glaciations in the Northern Hemisphere. Pergammon Press,
New York. 514 pp.

Peltier, W. R., 1994, Ice Age Paleotopography. Science.
vol. 256, pp. 195-201.

Shotton, F. W., 1986, in V. Sibrava, D. Q. Bowen, and
G. M. Richmond, ed., pp. 293-298, Quaternary Glaciations
in the Northern Hemisphere. Pergammon Press, New York.
514 pp.

Sutherland, D. G., and Michael, J. C. W., 1984, A late
Devensian ice-free area and possible interglacial site
on the Isle of Lewis, Scotland. Nature. vol. 309, pp.
701-703.

Sincerely,

Paul V. Heinrich           All comments are the
heinrich@intersurf.com     personal opinion of the writer and
Baton Rouge, LA            do not constitute policy and/or
                           opinion of government or corporate
                           entities.  This includes my employer.

Early Observation About Geologists :-)

And some rin up hill and down
dale, knapping the chucky
stanes to pieces with hammers,
like sae many road makers run daft.
They say it is to see how the
world was made.

--Sir Walter Scott
   St.Roman1s Well 1824

Copyright © 1996-2001 Paul V. Heinrich All rights reserved.